Ride Listing

[Gary Witcomb]

To The Team

 

Its not secret that i don't like the 2 ride listing section, but accept if that's the forum wish so be it,

 

However the 2 sections don't match, there are photos in the free section that are not in the paid section and vice a versa,

(this may not mean anything but there are 15k posts in the paid section and only 13.5k in the free section)

 

In addition there is no Juvenile listing in the paid section but is in the free section and i,m concerned we may be losing control of this extremely Important resource,

There is also far to many duplicate photos in these section with little or no change in appearance of the equipment obvious(in my opinion) 

[John Carter]

15 minutes ago, Gary Witcomb said:

There is also far to many duplicate photos in these section with little or no change in appearance of the equipment obvious(in my opinion) 

I certainly agree with that.

[Paul McHaddan]

I also agree i have up-dated many photos to the list but not been up-dated i am aware it takes time but am going back a long while now i do think we only need 1 list 👍

[Scott Turner]

I agree.

 

The transport database needs updating too. New vehicles are appearing and it seems easier to ID from social media than this forum. 

 

I think the forum in general is behind with the times. 

[harry m]

Points noted and in discussion between The Team.

 

To answer your individual points though.

 

1 hour ago, Gary Witcomb said:

However the 2 sections don't match, there are photos in the free section that are not in the paid section and vice a versa,

(this may not mean anything but there are 15k posts in the paid section and only 13.5k in the free section)

 

The two different lists will probably never match each other on the basis that not EVERY photo will make it from the free list to the restricted list.

This was pointed out in the original announcement about the free listing CLICK HERE TO SEE

Remember we have a Photo policy regarding costs to the site as well.

There will be a point in time when the free list of 13.5k entries will be larger than the Restricted list of 15k entries

 

1 hour ago, Gary Witcomb said:

In addition there is no Juvenile listing in the paid section but is in the free section and i,m concerned we may be losing control of this extremely Important resource,

There is also far to many duplicate photos in these section with little or no change in appearance of the equipment obvious(in my opinion) 

 

The Juvenile section being left out can be corrected, but as mentioned at the head of this post, Ive taken it into discussion with the other Admin/Mods.

To create the free list took a lot of time by the Team as it included over 13k transfers, so you'll forgive us if we left the Juvenile section for a later date.

 

It was decided that NO pictures would be deleted from the free lists at all ( unless against site rules and the member would be informed)  , and that not EVERY picture would go into the restricted list.

As an example, there's 1 machine that's had a picture taken and uploaded over 5 times in the last 4 weeks and in all honesty, there's hardly any difference between those 5 and the latest one held in the restricted list.

 

Regards

harry m

 

 

34 minutes ago, Paul McHaddan said:

I also agree i have up-dated many photos to the list but not been up-dated i am aware it takes time but am going back a long while now i do think we only need 1 list 👍

 

As mentioned above, I've taken this to the Team to discuss. I apologise for any photos that warranted being moved to the restricted list from the free list, but please allow us to discuss the matter before we do anything else to the lists.

 

Regards

harry m

 

 

 

[Bill Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Scott Turner said:

The transport database needs updating too.

 

We rely on members to supply the information, if the information is available we list it. I think it's fair to say that not everyone is as interested in transport or as knowledgeable.

 

12 minutes ago, Scott Turner said:

I think the forum in general is behind with the times. 

Thanks for that, a big kick in the teeth for the team who work so hard to make it the best we can. 

[harry m]

24 minutes ago, Scott Turner said:

I agree.

 

The transport database needs updating too. New vehicles are appearing and it seems easier to ID from social media than this forum. 

 

I think the forum in general is behind with the times. 

 

 

The transport data base is only as good as the information 'you' the member gives us. If you're aware of a new vehicle and owner, until 'YOU' the member tells us, we're unaware of it, therefore can't update the info we hold. I did make a point of checking, and it seems you personally havent added any 'new' vehicles to the transport data base over the last 2 years ! Even though in your own words, you ID from social media.

 

I hear your comment about the forum in general, but I have to totally disagree with you ! If you can tell me of a better and larger organised UK forum database, then I may listen to your point some more.

 

Regards

harry m

[Paul McHaddan]

4 minutes ago, harry m said:

 

As mentioned above, I've taken this to the Team to discuss. I apologise for any photos that warranted being moved to the restricted list from the free list, but please allow us to discuss the matter before we do anything else to the lists.

 

Regards

harry m

 

 

 

Harry there is no need to apologise i fully understand its not a 5 minute job to move photos etc the team do a very good job 👍

[Bill Edwards]

On 19/10/2024 at 20:48, Gary Witcomb said:

To The Team

 

Its not secret that i don't like the 2 ride listing section, but accept if that's the forum wish so be it,

 

However the 2 sections don't match, there are photos in the free section that are not in the paid section and vice a versa,

(this may not mean anything but there are 15k posts in the paid section and only 13.5k in the free section)

 

In addition there is no Juvenile listing in the paid section but is in the free section and i,m concerned we may be losing control of this extremely Important resource,

There is also far to many duplicate photos in these section with little or no change in appearance of the equipment obvious(in my opinion) 

 

The two sections were never meant to "match" - The Restricted Rides List was supposed to be the latest/greatest photo and the free rides list was supposed to be more photos. Supporters could choose weather they wanted "the latest" photo to identify a ride or a more comprehensive photo set to look at.

 

We did ask that members DIDN'T post "duplicates", but we  were ignored and we didn't anticipate the amount of work involved in Moderating it. We are in the process of finalising a process to address this. 

 

Please IGNORE the post counts - the way we copied from the restricted rides list to the free list was a flawed process requiring a lot of work by the author of the tool used just to make it work. An unfortunate side effect was that the post counts got out of sync. I will look into resyncing the counts. 

 

It was felt at the time that the Juvenile list didn't attract enough support to maintain two lists - they aren't "owner" lists, but just photos of examples of each type and not, in my opinion an "extremely important resource" we are losing control of. 

 

The Team feel that the two lists has it's merits, although we concede there are aspects we didn't anticipate that have reduced it's usefulness and before we 'give up' on the idea we have some tweaks to try

 

[Gary Witcomb]

I for one was under the impression that all photos had to be posted to the Free Section and then the latest/better photos would be transferred to the Paid section by the Team who would decide on its merits , i did not realise that I had to say why or were i intended the photos to be posted or end up,

I have posted loads of updated photos to the free section since the beginning of Sept expecting them to be transferred to the paid section, they have not been transferred so paid members are not getting the benefit from a more up to date photo, I don't know why we have the 2 sections, its just made the system more complex and no real benefit to anyone ALL IT HAS DONE IS GENERATE MORE WORK FOR THE TEAM !! and no benefit to Members

 

Now you have to check both section to find the latest photo to Identify a ride,

 

I don't agree that the juvenile section however useful/ used should not be in the Paid Section, that's not the Team choice that's the members choice,  

 

Sorry Team no wonder members past and present are disillusioned with the Forum

 

 

[Scott Turner]

I'm certainly disillusioned with the Forum. Its not how I remember it from 20 years ago.

[Scott Turner]

On 19/10/2024 at 22:36, Bill Edwards said:

 

We rely on members to supply the information, if the information is available we list it. I think it's fair to say that not everyone is as interested in transport or as knowledgeable.

 

Thanks for that, a big kick in the teeth for the team who work so hard to make it the best we can. 

 

I offered to help with the transport database remember and was turned down.

 

Sorry Bill, it wasn't meant to affend, I could have probably worded it better. Over the years the forum has declined. When I joined members used to post regular on here but now they have turned to social media. 

[Bill Edwards]

@Gary Witcomb - I may not have explained properly, because there seems to be some confusion.

 

The idea was the Supporters List would have the latest/greatest photo and the Rides List would have a more comprehensive photo set. ALL members would post to the Free List and Moderators would transfer to the Restricted List any photo that improved that list. It wasn't for the member to say where the photo ended up, but up to Moderators.

 

Where this has broken down is that Free Rides List was openly postable and we didn't put into place any mechanism whereby EVERY free ride post would be checked and the restricted list updated. We are now doing that so hopefully that will improve. 

 

Feedback on the dual list has generally been favourable, although I accept that it isn't to everyones liking - unfortunately you can't please everybody all the time - you are more aware than anyone of the difficulty in being on the team and trying to do the best you can. So, it's disappointing that you feel the way you do and are prepared to put us down the way you have

 

[Bill Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Scott Turner said:

I offered to help with the transport database remember and was turned down.

 

Would you like me to make public the reasons you were turned down???

 

We are aware that we are losing ground to Social Media, we are fighting hard to make the forum the best we can - comments such as yours and Gary's are NOT helping. I remind you that membership of the forum is purely voluntary!

[Paul Needham]

just my thoughts 😁

1/ no wonder Bill feels he needs to move on

 

2/ social media, huh, root all over to find stuff IF you can

 

3/ i'm not nor have i ever been disillusioned with the forum [ and im not saying anyone said i was, just making my position clear]

 

4/ all these ex members moaning about rules on here? FB and all the other stuff would be a whole lot better if our rules applied there, and anyway there are rules on the road, at work, socially etc etc, according to some silly tests whilst on courses as out of work i'm a "judge" personality and like rules and readily agree to them, must be different for the other 3? types though

 

5/ since the NFA got the willies then our lists are the only game in town, without it what do we use?

[harry m]

3 hours ago, Gary Witcomb said:

I for one was under the impression that all photos had to be posted to the Free Section and then the latest/better photos would be transferred to the Paid section by the Team who would decide on its merits , i did not realise that I had to say why or were i intended the photos to be posted or end up,

I have posted loads of updated photos to the free section since the beginning of Sept expecting them to be transferred to the paid section, they have not been transferred

 

 

 

 As explained by Bill's previous reply, "we didn't put into place any mechanism whereby EVERY free ride post would be checked and the restricted list updated. We are now doing that so hopefully that will improve."

 

3 hours ago, Gary Witcomb said:

 so paid members are not getting the benefit from a more up to date photo, I don't know why we have the 2 sections, its just made the system more complex and no real benefit to anyone ALL IT HAS DONE IS GENERATE MORE WORK FOR THE TEAM !! and no benefit to Members

 

Now you have to check both section to find the latest photo to Identify a ride,

 

 

 

  Paid members ARE getting the benefit, as paying members can access BOTH lists. We've already explained above what went wrong with files not been copied over.

It was a Team decision to implement the free lists, as we thought others could benefit from it, yet we still wanted to retain information that only Subscribers could see as well.

 

There's 6+ times more members than Subscribers, so we felt that by giving them something as well would be beneficial. Maybe this could encourage others to subscribe ? after all, the amount of people who've said " What do I get if I subscribe" in the past can now get a sample of what current subscribers get. 

 

3 hours ago, Gary Witcomb said:

I don't agree that the juvenile section however useful/ used should not be in the Paid Section, that's not the Team choice that's the members choice,  

 

Sorry Team no wonder members past and present are disillusioned with the Forum

 

 

 

At the end of the day, it IS the Teams choice as to what topics are included in each forum, although we DO listen to what everyone says and suggests. For you to state otherwise is a bit 'rattle out of pram' !

 

Your last line comes across as a bit of an insult really, given you've been on the Team and have seen what happens. Your comment  that members ( Note memberS) past and present are disillusioned with the Forum  suggests that you speak on behalf of others ? is that the case, or are you just speaking for yourself ?

I notice only you and 1 other member has raised that point in this topic !.

 

I can take constructive criticism, as long as whoever says it can back it up with fact.

I'm aware you don't like the fact we have two rides lists,( we can't please all of the people all of the time)  but I've had several members saying they like the free lists. That sort of outweighs losing the free list don't you agree?

 

Ultimately, the aim of the forum is to make it suitable for EVERYONE, that's all we're trying to achieve. We're open to suggestions on how to improve things all the time. I'm not saying every change will be to everyone's liking, but we listen to everyone, evaluate their ideas/suggestions, and implement them if we can. On this occasion, there was an oversight with how we implemented the transfer of photos from one list to another. We've apologised, and I'll personally apologise again, and tell you we regret

making that error.

There's not much more I can add to that really, except that we intend to rectify the problem as soon as we can.

 

2 hours ago, Scott Turner said:

I'm certainly disillusioned with the Forum. Its not how I remember it from 20 years ago.

 

To be honest with you, I don't know of ANYTHING that is the same as 20 years ago... I wished it were! but its an unfair comment to say the forum's declined because the world changes and moves on. We can't FORCE people to make posts,topics, post pictures, those are for the individual to want to do themselves. For that reason its unfair to say or suggest it's our ( the forum's) fault. A fairer comment would of been " it's a shame that enthusiasts prefer to use social media than this forum"

 

2 hours ago, Scott Turner said:

Sorry Bill, it wasn't meant to affend, I could have probably worded it better. Over the years the forum has declined. When I joined members used to post regular on here but now they have turned to social media. 

 

You compare the forum with 20 years ago ? , Well 20 years ago we didn't have social media to contend with. We didn't have lots of other things that we do today.

If someone prefers to use social media rather than this forum to post information, what do you suggest we do to alter it ?

 

 

The free rides list will be staying, while we try and perfect it, I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but given the time and work that gone into creating it we're not giving up whilst it only needs a few alterations.

 

On a parting note, The forum only exists due to the memberships input and content, for which we're extremely grateful, Thank you.

 

 

Regards

harry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill Edwards]

1 hour ago, Paul Needham said:

no wonder Bill feels he needs to move on

 

A perceptive comment 😉